Report 1717
Report #1717 Skillset: Skill: Shield/Reflect/Avoid/Defense Org: Glomdoring Status: Rejected Jul 2017 Furies' Decision: We do not believe this is necessary. Problem: In smaller scale combats its too easy to effectively stonewall an enemy with defensive measures. This report seeks to limit the scale of defensive actions common to all and some offensive defenses. 2 R:11 Solution #1: On a rolling 20 second cool down every time you cast shield/reflections/avoid/(add any other spammable defensive skill in comments) you will increase the balance usage of that paticular ability by 1 seconds. So for example if you cast invoke circle three times in the row the first cast is 4 seconds, then 5 then 6. Cool down should be separate for each skill allowing having multi defensive skills to be a boon instead of overlap. 1 R:11 Solution #2: Same thing but instead of a rolling cool down a fixed cool down of 8 seconds from the last cast. 0 R:12 Solution #3: Also include a number of offensive actions such as the webbing enchantment. Logic behind this is it can be used in a defensive measure akin to shielding spamming to stonewall targets. Note I would not include certain class specific skills in this such as hangman or vines. The reson for the class based exclusion is part of the dehomogenisation process it'll be a step onto certain classes having a much stronger constant hinder than others. Would essentially be a buff to things such as hangman/vines in a way. Player Comments: ---on 7/2 @ 19:44 sets as pending ---on 7/11 @ 23:27 writes: Not really for these changes. People spamming shield 1vs1 are not doing anything offensively, usually, and people spamming shield in groups are not helping the group. I don't really feel people should be punished for hiding behind defensive skills, just cause they are annoying to deal with. Also, in groups shields and other defensive skills should not be an issue, tracking your target shielding/reflection is something everyone should be doing in a group so it can be stripped. As far as Solution 3, I think there are too many cases for exceptions in regards to 'class skills' to make this workable. ---on 7/14 @ 01:19 writes: I agree with Danquik on this. I find it annoying when people spam headslam/shieldstun/etc. every balance and as you point out in sol 3 these can be used to stonewall just as much. Basically sol 1 and 2 I feel just changes the balance to fix one particular form of imbalance in trade for another and sol 3 sounds incredibly messy in that there would be a list of inclusions and exclusions. I do agree with the premise of the report but I think rather than nerfing all or a selection of abilities it'd be good to look at specific class interactions, specifically the ones who can be entirely countered by spamming shield (I suspect these are mostly guardians/wiccans). I'm generally nervous, even though this is an unfortunate state of affairs, of anything that could potentially change group balance for the sake of 1v1 balance as well. I like 1v1 myself and I wish the game had more mechanical support for classes to 1v1 and more reasons for them to do so but it is what it is. ---on 7/16 @ 07:03 writes: I'm a bit conflicted. This is a bit of a problem, but I agree with Danquik and Wobou that this may not be the best approach. ---on 7/17 @ 16:47 writes: I found it was more warriors and monks who suffer from stonewalling tatics. Maybe its not a great way to fix it but well there was some discussion and it felt like a good way to start to have a standard "cooldown" or reduction in the ability to stonewall across the board instead of nerfing individual abilities. That way we have a base level to work with and can add and remove abilities. ---on 7/18 @ 09:36 writes: Agreed with prior comments: while this is a problem, I don't feel that this report addresses it in a good way. ---on 7/22 @ 00:23 writes: To be honest, I don't really see stonewalling as an issue in group combat. If your spamming avoid/reflect/etc while being focused in a group setting, you're really just knocking one person off balance and the rest of the group is going to hit you. The only real time I see stonewalling being an issue is in 1v1. It is extremely annoying for monks, because it's pretty easy to just spam avoid or timeslip or reflection to force me to reset stance, or to wait for your burst window to close, but I don't think adding an increasing balance per use is really the answer, like Dan and Wobs said. ---on 7/23 @ 09:43 writes: I support this change in essence, but the solutions you've written up go way too far. I'd start with a rolling 10s cooldown (refreshed if you use shield again within the 10s) and a progressively .5s longer balance time. First just for lowmagic/highmagic shield, along with salt. I think it'd be a good way to test the mechanic, to potentially add to other skills which are spammed. Hopefully we can foster less repetitive playstyles. ---on 7/29 @ 22:29 writes: I do not think the problem statement as stated points to a real problem. Perhaps because it is too broad and vague. If there are particular issues, I think they should be addressed particularly. This blanket change is too disruptive and I think goes too far. Defensive combat is a valuable thing to enable, in my opinion. If the problem is monk/warrior vs. reflection, then make raze work against reflections. Direct solutions would be much better than this blanket change.